> But I agree the way it is done is brilliant and it leaves all of us unsure > of everything, opening up infinite possibilites as to what it all means. Desire is always the desire of theOther our dreams constituring the realisation of desire. It iscertainly distinctly possible that the woman at the party is otherthan the woman at the Somerton ritual, though the former does appearto be the Mandy that ends up in the morgue (she never made it to'rehab', as Dr Bill had suggested but never bothered following up,just later shunted home by Ziegler's heavies); remember, we only haveZiegler's explanation/confirmation that they are the same 'Mandy',hardly a reliable witness given his contradictory assertionsthroughout the film. >In a big crowd of masked> people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is). '<<<<<<<<<<<> I think it is clear he was referring to the Somerton party. >Apparently word of Bill's entry into the ceremony/orgy traveled fast. Somerton could hardly be >> >>>>>> described (and>, >> certainly not by Bill) as a 'party.'<<<<<<<<<<<. >> >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? He could choose to call it many things, but 'party'? No comments. Orgy? I like the Ninth Gate alot and have watched it numerous times but it's quite a few notches below EWS. While the final movie was greeted with somewhat mixed reviews at the time, the appreciation for Eyes Wide Shut has only grown since its 1999 debut. Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice? This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. When Bill asks what, she simply responds, "Fuck." Eyes Wide Shut developed after Stanley Kubrick read Arthur Schnitzler's Dream Story in 1968, when Kubrick was looking for a project to follow 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick was interested in adapting the story, and with the help of journalist Jay Cocks, bought the filming rights to the novel. And of course how did > the mask get on his pillow? He wasn't positive. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, ME> You can identify Pollack's eyes and chin quite easily in the close ups.>. And of course how did the mask get on his pillow? So maybe they were all wearing walkie talkies under those masks, what do you want me to say..no, this IS left as a huge mystery. Much of what we have seen is Bill's non-verbal reactions to > all this, which is full of shock and bewilderment. Ha ha hah, ha ha hah! They paid off the desk cleark to tell Bill, that Nick was being roughed up, or perhaps the clerk is one of those men dancing with men at the ceremony/orgy and in fact Mandy, although on the slab was not really dead. > Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is another > mystery. -----Richard Schultz sch@mail.biu.ac.ilDepartment of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, IsraelOpinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University-----"It would have been like discussing sundials with a bat. "The ng will die when there are no longer any participants. In keeping with the filmmaker's quest for perfection, the shoot for Eyes Wide Shut famously rolled on, with the movie holding the record for the longest consecutiveshoot, as filming began in late 1996 and wrapped in mid-1998. ", > I'm sorry, but this has to be said: I'm pretty sure I know what you, > mean,> but the way you're saying it is silly. On Feb 26, 3:27 pm, "Avoid normal situations. Yes, and we could speculate even further: there are no dream sequenceswhatsoever in the film, Alice's story about the navel officer being arecollection of her past desires, not a portrayed dream as such atall. But what he was getting at was whether it was murder and a sacrifice for him, which makes him feel responsible, since it would not have happened had he not been there. > it is clearly the same voice as the "mysterious woman." The poolroom scene is an amazing piece of extreme understatement, while at the same time, being simplke and concrete. This is Eyes Wide Shut revisited. WebChords for Backward Priests, normal version of Masked Ball Eyes wide shut with lyrics. At what point do we decide whether Corpse Mandy's very. > Well I hope you see now that this is clear after reading the dialogue. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one we talked about this about 8 years ago on this newsgroup . i'm sure he knew that aaudiences would be sophisticated enough toexamine the bodies as bill is doing in the morgue. WebI n the film "Eyes Wide Shut", who was the masked woman that redeemed Tom Cruise's character? ", "They were nutcases. I don't think there were any other dreams, although the redpool table scene always seemed the most dreamlike to me. Masks - both literal and figurative - are a major motif, and one of the most important sequences is when Bill infiltrates a masked sex party at a remote mansion, which is being held by members of high society. :>released around the same time, The Ninth Gate. ---people with no idea of the futility and silliness of counting endless grains of sands, with their mental masturbations and perserverations. The goal of yoga practice was to STOP all that useless babble---because that is how a person actually makes the breakthrough to see reality as it is. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Billhas been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-vis Mandy and the masked woman. -- Fred Brooks, I think I saw the "Rhizomatic" for sale on TV Late last night. > Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curran> suffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make a> connection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafe> that set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier served> as Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? (meaning > the Mysterious woman), ME"So..Victor the woman lying dead at the morgue was the> women at the party, well Victor, maybe i'm missing something > but what kind of Charade ends up with someone dead.". What a joke to call them "philosophers." Was she the women at the party?" It is as if he Wanted, as if hedesired, compelled, it to be so again, its at two - simultaneousbut contradictory - levels (as ALWAYS in many of Kubrick's films -like in The Shining: are the spectral ghosts 'real' or is Jack etcimagining them? I actually had to look that up. in fact if you look very closely, Mandy on the Slab, winks. Not only are they the REAL "anti-intellectuals," they were schizoid as hell and projected it onto the social mess, creating political gibberish, that has NO usefulness to anyone. > the same time, being simple and concrete. >>In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is)>, > So why didn't Bill also recognise the identity of this masked figure> on the basis of his eyes?<<<<<<<<<<<<, > This is simple. -- Steven L.Email: sdli@earthlinkNOSPAM.net, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6g66OYoKI, "Steven L." wrote in message. Perhaps Alice was already attending these rituals and this was a way to gently break in stuffy and repressed Bill to this new found club and part of his initiation. The Daily Planet may go under too. Harry, you are calling him a troll for criticizing your manic, vain and pretentious word salad? Isn't that - again - amazing; except that you're not even unfortunateenough to have a mindless head, given the large quantities ofbubblewrap - and nothing else - between your ears take care, MrKelpless. He only ultimately accepts Ziegler's account because itgives him a convenient alibi (as well as because of Ziegler's powerfulposition - Bill is Ziegler's man, obeying his orders, subscribing tothe demands and realities of Ziegler's world). So check out Mandy's Wink on the slab---it's very fast, but it is there:), Yeah but he used the same actor for different roles in Dr Strangeloveand in some scenes of Eyes Wide Shut he has Cruise on a treadmillagainst a blue screen using real photography of NYC behind him, thenin the next scene Cruise is filmed against a set in england. I trhink Steven Lizberger is right. (3) With the advent of cyberspace, and just simple disinterest many newspaper companies have gone under. Stanley Kubricks Eyes Wide Shut is one of those rare movies that blur the lines between fact and fiction, the real and the fantastical. > Take another listen. What is interesting is that the film's very ambiguity concerning theidentities of the three women (Mandy, masked woman, woman in morgue),sets up a desire to 'fill in' all the film's narrative gaps anddeadlocks, a desire to shut down such uncertainty, to give - just likeZiegler - an easy, 'commonsensical' black and white 'explanation' ofevents. <<<<<<<<<<. Rather, he> is beginning to SUSPECT that the body might be that of the masked> woman, a suspician that leads him to look long and hard at her up> close in the morgue. > <<<<<<< after> visiting the morgue, as his disbelief at Ziegler's explanation> indicated. > certainly not by Bill) as a 'party. The big question is how did the mask get there, and who left it? Mandy was not the same woman. Eyes Wide Shut cast Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman as a married couple, with the former playing a doctor who goes on a strange, sexually charged journey one night when his wife admits to having had adulterous thoughts. S he was the same woman who overdosed at Victor Ziegler's party earlier in the movie. Are you suggesting that the people running Somerton would let the> women there know that there was an interloper? (and i'm sure that doesn't even begin to label them in full) They were nutcases. The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns > Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. The most obvious answer is Alice found the mask and left it out as a way to let Bill know she knew something was going on. Mon 14th Feb 2022 19.00 GMT. Nah, the only dreams in the movie are the one that Alice tells to Billand then Bill "daydreams' (thinks about) her having sex with thatsailor. And if it's *not* supposed to be obvious, thatmeans that Polanski screwed up. reinforced bythe simple observation that you have never actually posted here before[at least under your supplied handle/ID]. <<<<<<<<<<<>. She helps Bill at the Let him go! Put on some headphones and listen. In a big crowd of masked people, Zeigler (his eyes give away who he is) on the balcony looking down at Bill, knows that it is him and nodded to him. I had absolutely no idea you were involved in any way. But then, Ziegler's 'explanation', his retconningof past events, only serves to further propel Bill into subjectivedestitution, another 'replay' of Bill's unmasking at Somerton, Zieglerpower-presiding over Bill's position and status at a red pool-tablemuch like Red Cloak presided over the power ritual on a red carpet atSomerton. >>>>>> But which 'party' is Bill referring to? Is that how youwould describe it? The (unnamed) woman in the mask who warns Doctor Cruise is the same woman who ends up dead in the morgue. Somerton could hardly be > >>>>>> described (and. Nevertheless, those two recollections(one of a fantasy, one of a dream) constitute the very desire whoseexclusion (from the quotidian, commonsensical, 'social reality' of theHarfords' marriage) the film is exploring. >>Even in the morgue he still might not have been positive, but he replays >>her voice in his head while looking over the body. orpsychotherapists. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, >> "I know.">. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, -- Dennis/Endyhttp://home.comcast.net/~endymion91/~I was born to rock the boat. Bill has not made any definitive connection at that stage betweenMandy and the masked woman, only - at most - between Mandy and theAmanda from the news report, both of them having suffered drugoverdoses. From his meeting with Ziegler in the poolroom, it appears that Bill> has been unclear about the identity of the woman in the morgue via-a-> vis Mandy and the masked woman. It would be odd for him to say, "orgy," or ritual, > etc. I am normally the last guy in theworld to criticize somebody for using big words, but, besides that you'renot bothering, even, to use them correctly, the way that you are using themserves to obfuscate rather than clarify your meaning. >>Bill was not yet sure it was Mandy from the bathroom, till he happened to >>see the news story and saw the name "Amanda," then it started to come >>together.>, > These last points I've already covered>. Indeed, he appearsthoroughly confused: later with Ziegler in the poolroom, he asks, "thewoman at the party is the woman lying dead in the morgue." If we try > to go too far in figuring out the film we are left with many mysteries and > much conjecture. while walking down one of the NY streets, the background glowsbeautifucally. 2. If it'ssupposed to be obvious, then why is it treated as such a great revelation,and why is a character who is presented as being reasonably intelligentso dense as not to see it? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<. Same voice. >What else could> he call it? 20 years ago today, the final masterpiece from the late, great Stanley Kubrick arrived in theaters. at the >> ceremony/orgy.>, > Again, how is it 'clearly' the same voice?>. What a joke to call them "philosophers." >>>>>>>>> And even if it was clear, even if he had> referred directly to the events of the night before as the (Somerton)> party, it would still be uncertain, because>> 1. "you are going to need some rehab," she says, "I > know.". Put on some headphones and listen. Even though much was 'cleared" up there are still major mysteries here that unless they are encoded in single frames for analyssis will alwasy be a mystery. >>>>>>>>>>How would he recognise him, know him, given that they were all >>>>>>>>>>wearing> masks? Even Sk was not perfect in that way-----or was hethere is the mystery. Weve got a beautiful feminine version of the lead mask that features a baroque pattern and crystal embellishments, as well as a feathered mask similar to the Desire is always Other. > People often don't make definitive connections between things at the > moment. 1. Is that how youwould describe it? This website has Julienne Davis listed with photos--in all three scenes! > It's totally clear the "party' in this reference, is Somerton. ", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIXuHaaz5iU, > This may indeed be the case, but within the diagetic space of the film. Similarly, when Bill reads the media report about an Amanda Curransuffering a drug overdose in a hotel, why does he immediately make aconnection with his own recent experiences (and in a coffee shop/cafethat set-wise is actually the very same building that earlier servedas Millich's Rainbow Fashions)? 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